I always preferred Batman (although I stopped reading Batman some years ago, as there was just too much sadistic, realistic violence and little sense of fun). That said, I think you're right about Superman as myth. This is probably why my favourite Superman stories work e.g. "Red Son" (infant Kal-El lands in the USSR and fights for Stalin, Social Justice and the Communist Way) and "For the Man Who Has Everything" (Superman is trapped in his own fantasies, which turn out to be a desire for a superpower-free life on Krypton, with a wife, kids and a mundane job).
I won't get to see it until after the 3 weeks, but am looking forward to it (since I rarely go to a movie theater I would love to do a double-header with The Fantastic Four.) P.S. Your subtitle is missing the word "we".
You could squeeze it in Mosi Shabbos! Thanks for the tip on the subtitle! And I’m really looking forward to the new fantastic four even if they did gender swap the silver surfer.
With regard to the "gender swap of the Silver Surfer", I'm sure you're aware that the MCU (like the comics) involves a multiverse, and that the MM movie is not taking place on Earth-616. Even if it were, there are many silver surfers besides Norrin Radd in the comics themselves. Shalla-Bal, the one in the forthcoming movie, is one of them and first appeared in 1968. Being perturbed that the earth in this movie has a female Silver Surfer is like being upset that Reed is being played by a Hispanic actor. Perhaps this Ben Grimm isn't even Jewish!
I didn’t say I was upset. But I grew up reading the original appearance of Galactus and the Silver Surfer in the 1960s comics, some of which I still own. And the original surfer, is the iconic one. He’s the one you still see on T-shirts and the like. And yes, it would be very annoying if they took the one Jewish character in Marvel comics and took that away from him.
As for Pedro Pascal as Reed Richards, it doesn’t bother me much for whatever reason, though it is a form of tokenism as is so much of the gender swapping and ethnic swapping. Sometimes it’s more noticeable than others. We just watched Jerry Seinfeld‘s unfrosted, and I thought it was pretty ridiculous to cast Greek American Tom Carvell, an actual person, as a black man.
Pedro Pascal was cast because he is HUGE right now (and John Krasinski wasn’t interested), not because they needed a “token” in the cast.
It may seem like I am trying to be disagreeable, but I’m simply aiming for accuracy (as when I point out typo; it’s certainly not personal - I would want to be corrected.) It’s unusual to be able to discuss this stuff with someone who’s also Jewishly observant.
“And yes, it would be very annoying if they took the one Jewish character in Marvel comics and took that away from him.” He’s not the only one. Magneto is still Jewish in the MCU, I believe. In the comics, Kitty Pryde, Billy Kaplan, Marc Spector (which I really hate, that the Jewish character is involved with Egyptian gods-I was glad that didn’t carry over to the TV show.) Since every Jewish character seems to date non-Jews, I never really felt like they were the best representation you could have, although I thought giving Magneto a Holocaust back story was impactful.
We’ve had a movie with Norrin Radd, and I am excited to see a different herald, in a different universe, although I do understand the pull of nostalgia. I spent many wonderful Shabbas afternoons as a child reading comics. When I first read FF comics, Sue wasn’t particularly powerful; she mostly played defense. Now she is one of the most powerful heroes (of all those who lack invulnerability.) She can put a force field inside an enemy’s brain and threaten to expand it! She can put a force around someone’s head and cur off their oxygen! I think that’s a great development.
I won't argue (much) about Pedro Pascal, and yes there's Magneto, but he's a villain, and I think Ben is one of the first and most interesting of the Jewish characters. There's a lovely illustration of him by Jack Kirby wearing a tallit.
I don't recall the Norrin Radd film, but, anyway, my point would be that this FF is pretty clearly modeled on the first appearance of Galactus on earth and that was the original SS. Sue's evolution is fine. I'm just glad they didn't super-sexify her as they did in some comics maybe ten years ago.
As for tokenism, I can guarantee 100 per cent that when they were deciding about the SS, someone was like, gee, there's only one woman in the film, so far with any power, let's dig up that female SS instead of the original. And I can also guarantee that when they cast Pedro, they're like, "twofer!" we get a Hispanic character and a major box office draw, so we don't have to worry that Ben and Johnny are not "diverse."
All that having been said, I'm sometimes fine with such swaps, like casting Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury worked beautifully, maybe because he's just such a force of nature, he overrides any lingering mental templates. We'll see if this SS does the same.
I'll be too busy pushing liquids big time (not good during a movie.) And I don't really like seeing big movies when they're crowded. I'm pretty sure it will still be in theaters in 3 weeks. (Years ago, I did miss seeing Spiderman-3 in my local theater because it opened during the omer and it either closed before Lag B'Omer, or I couldn't get to it before it did.) Shver Tsu zayn a yid!
I always preferred Batman (although I stopped reading Batman some years ago, as there was just too much sadistic, realistic violence and little sense of fun). That said, I think you're right about Superman as myth. This is probably why my favourite Superman stories work e.g. "Red Son" (infant Kal-El lands in the USSR and fights for Stalin, Social Justice and the Communist Way) and "For the Man Who Has Everything" (Superman is trapped in his own fantasies, which turn out to be a desire for a superpower-free life on Krypton, with a wife, kids and a mundane job).
Does he use the phrase "Truth Justice and the American Way"? Otherwise, WOKE
Alas, no.
I really LOLd at that YouTube "GUILTY!". I'll edit that photo asap so you can add it to this post
Our son will be mortified if I post any version of those photos.
I won't get to see it until after the 3 weeks, but am looking forward to it (since I rarely go to a movie theater I would love to do a double-header with The Fantastic Four.) P.S. Your subtitle is missing the word "we".
You could squeeze it in Mosi Shabbos! Thanks for the tip on the subtitle! And I’m really looking forward to the new fantastic four even if they did gender swap the silver surfer.
With regard to the "gender swap of the Silver Surfer", I'm sure you're aware that the MCU (like the comics) involves a multiverse, and that the MM movie is not taking place on Earth-616. Even if it were, there are many silver surfers besides Norrin Radd in the comics themselves. Shalla-Bal, the one in the forthcoming movie, is one of them and first appeared in 1968. Being perturbed that the earth in this movie has a female Silver Surfer is like being upset that Reed is being played by a Hispanic actor. Perhaps this Ben Grimm isn't even Jewish!
I didn’t say I was upset. But I grew up reading the original appearance of Galactus and the Silver Surfer in the 1960s comics, some of which I still own. And the original surfer, is the iconic one. He’s the one you still see on T-shirts and the like. And yes, it would be very annoying if they took the one Jewish character in Marvel comics and took that away from him.
As for Pedro Pascal as Reed Richards, it doesn’t bother me much for whatever reason, though it is a form of tokenism as is so much of the gender swapping and ethnic swapping. Sometimes it’s more noticeable than others. We just watched Jerry Seinfeld‘s unfrosted, and I thought it was pretty ridiculous to cast Greek American Tom Carvell, an actual person, as a black man.
Pedro Pascal was cast because he is HUGE right now (and John Krasinski wasn’t interested), not because they needed a “token” in the cast.
It may seem like I am trying to be disagreeable, but I’m simply aiming for accuracy (as when I point out typo; it’s certainly not personal - I would want to be corrected.) It’s unusual to be able to discuss this stuff with someone who’s also Jewishly observant.
“And yes, it would be very annoying if they took the one Jewish character in Marvel comics and took that away from him.” He’s not the only one. Magneto is still Jewish in the MCU, I believe. In the comics, Kitty Pryde, Billy Kaplan, Marc Spector (which I really hate, that the Jewish character is involved with Egyptian gods-I was glad that didn’t carry over to the TV show.) Since every Jewish character seems to date non-Jews, I never really felt like they were the best representation you could have, although I thought giving Magneto a Holocaust back story was impactful.
We’ve had a movie with Norrin Radd, and I am excited to see a different herald, in a different universe, although I do understand the pull of nostalgia. I spent many wonderful Shabbas afternoons as a child reading comics. When I first read FF comics, Sue wasn’t particularly powerful; she mostly played defense. Now she is one of the most powerful heroes (of all those who lack invulnerability.) She can put a force field inside an enemy’s brain and threaten to expand it! She can put a force around someone’s head and cur off their oxygen! I think that’s a great development.
I won't argue (much) about Pedro Pascal, and yes there's Magneto, but he's a villain, and I think Ben is one of the first and most interesting of the Jewish characters. There's a lovely illustration of him by Jack Kirby wearing a tallit.
I don't recall the Norrin Radd film, but, anyway, my point would be that this FF is pretty clearly modeled on the first appearance of Galactus on earth and that was the original SS. Sue's evolution is fine. I'm just glad they didn't super-sexify her as they did in some comics maybe ten years ago.
As for tokenism, I can guarantee 100 per cent that when they were deciding about the SS, someone was like, gee, there's only one woman in the film, so far with any power, let's dig up that female SS instead of the original. And I can also guarantee that when they cast Pedro, they're like, "twofer!" we get a Hispanic character and a major box office draw, so we don't have to worry that Ben and Johnny are not "diverse."
All that having been said, I'm sometimes fine with such swaps, like casting Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury worked beautifully, maybe because he's just such a force of nature, he overrides any lingering mental templates. We'll see if this SS does the same.
The sequel to the 2005 FF movie was about Norrin Radd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Four:_Rise_of_the_Silver_Surfer
I'll be too busy pushing liquids big time (not good during a movie.) And I don't really like seeing big movies when they're crowded. I'm pretty sure it will still be in theaters in 3 weeks. (Years ago, I did miss seeing Spiderman-3 in my local theater because it opened during the omer and it either closed before Lag B'Omer, or I couldn't get to it before it did.) Shver Tsu zayn a yid!